nanofrog
Apr 24, 09:32 PM
So I'm a freelance Editor/Motion Graphics guy with no real understanding of RAID Controller Cards, or how they work.
As of right now I have three 1TB drives inside my Mac Pro, RAIDed together (stripe 0) using the OS. No Raid card.
The drives are all 7200rpm from varying manufacturers. (not sure if this matters.)
My questions is; is it beneficial for me to get a RAID card to control these drives vs. leaving it to the OS to handle? Any suggestions for me?
Thanks.
2010 8-Core Mac Pro 2.4
14GB RAM
It all depends on the details of how you use the system (RAID is supposed to be configured to the specific usage, so there's no "one size fits all", though for narrowed usage patterns, you will see similarities).
I'd advise you to search out previous RAID threads (there's quite a few), and pay attention to the various questions asked, and get back to us with some answers). I'd also recommend you review Wiki's RAID page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAID) (pay particular attention to the different levels).
If you're a paid professional, using a stripe set (RAID 0) is a disaster waiting to happen. Even with a backup, you'll spend a fair bit of time to perform a recovery when a disk dies (matter of when, not if), and this also means re-performing work that was done between the most recent backup and when the array failed (beyond replacing the bad disk and restoring all the backup files, which presumably <worst case>, will be multiples to return all the data you have from your backup media).
Glad to see you at least have some sort of backup with your current configuration. :)
Now if you go with a RAID card, you'll need to use enterprise grade drives for stability reasons (different recovery timings in the firmware than consumer models, which tend to be unstable as a result). Unfortunately, they're not as cheap (in fact, can be 2x as expensive as their consumer counterparts for the latest capacity).
Consumer disks are fine for backup purposes though, and this can save you a considerable amount of funds, particularly if your capacity requirements are high (i.e. eSATA card + Port Multiplier based external enclosure; example kit (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816111136&cm_re=tr4mp-_-16-111-136-_-Product)).
There are some inexpensive products that claim RAID 5, but be careful. Some are software based, which should never be used for this level (no solution to the "write hole issue" associated with parity based arrays). Others use very inexpensive hardware RAID controllers (aka RoC = RAID on a Chip). They're slow for primary usage, and is why they're cheap (compromise on performance vs. proper RAID cards).
If on a budget you could go with RAID-Z, it involves switching to the ZFS file system. RAID-Z1 apparently offers similar performance to RAID5. Read this thread (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1135718) for further insight.
This can get complicated on the software end though, and not recommended for those that aren't comfortable with the additional complexity (patches for OS X or via VM), particularly for a DAS system (has more merit with NAS or SAN IMO).
So I'd stick with a 3rd party hardware RAID card, assuming this is actually needed, enterprise disks and any enclosures/mounting hardware necessary. Much simpler in terms of software (install the drivers, and any interface software that's required to access the card settings), and the hardware aspect isn't that difficult either.
I would get an SSD for the OS and use the 3x 7200rpm Disks in RAID5.
RAID5 is great for storing uncompressed video data and in your case would offer protection against a single drive failure.
Most cards don't deal with consumer grade disks very well (ATTO and Area definitely don't).
But consumer disks are fine for backup purposed (i.e via eSATA and PM enclosures) due to the lower duty cycle (where you can cut costs effectively, and not endanger the data).
or Just RAID5 with 3x HDD's and partition the RAID volume.
I wouldn't do this if both partitions are to be used simultaneously (i.e. primary data one one partition, scratch data on the other).
The most recommend cards right now are the Areca 6g 1880 series or the new ATTO 6G series. For your needs something like the ARC-1880-i SAS 6G RAID Controller would suffice if you don't plan to connect external RAID/Storage solution.
Those are the best recommendations as far as brand and series per. As to a specific model, it will depend on the specifics, particularly for growth (i.e 8 ports may be outgrown in under 3 years, so getting a card with sufficient ports to last that long would be cheaper in the long run - just add disks and enclosures as necessary).
Sorry should have been more clear (like I said I'm dumb) I have a 500GB Boot drive that lives independently from the (3) 1TB drives RAIDED together via the OS.
A separate boot disk is advisable, as you still have a working OS if the array goes down (allows you to access the card, use the browser to search for help, or deal with Support from the card manufacturer if needed).
And ALL data (3.5TB's) is backed up by an external 4TB Time Machine RAID (2 drives @ 2TB each)...which is connected via 2 eSATA cables via the eSATA PCI Card I bought from OWC...which I guess is actually RAIDed by the OS as well.
That backup solution is a RAID 0. The overall backup solution will almost certainly need to change in order to be sufficient for the primary storage pool you'll end up with.
Not sure what you are looking at, since 3 drives is sort of an odd combination. I have a 2009/2010 Mac Pro Nehalem, running the apple sas card for the 4 internal bays (yes I know they make adapters to use 3rd party cards), and the performance is fair, not great but fair. About 300Mb/s read/write with 4 WD Black edition drives (1tb each). Externally, running an Areca 1680x card, with a 8 drive ProAvio chassis, 8 SAS Seagate 15k7 drives (450GB) which gives close to 900MB/s. I have tried multiple cards over the years, nano and I have exchanged lots of posts/messages. Email/PM me with specific questions and I will try and help you. Beware of most of these 3rd party slot adapters/etc. they are more hassle than they are worth.
I've not heard or seen any issues with the MaxUpgrades kit.
As per Apple's card, I'm no fan of it, particularly due to the cost/performance ratio.
BTW, the OP only has 2 posts at the time of writting this, so returning a PM isn't possible yet (needs to have 5 posts IIRC). email would work if you have that enabled.
As of right now I have three 1TB drives inside my Mac Pro, RAIDed together (stripe 0) using the OS. No Raid card.
The drives are all 7200rpm from varying manufacturers. (not sure if this matters.)
My questions is; is it beneficial for me to get a RAID card to control these drives vs. leaving it to the OS to handle? Any suggestions for me?
Thanks.
2010 8-Core Mac Pro 2.4
14GB RAM
It all depends on the details of how you use the system (RAID is supposed to be configured to the specific usage, so there's no "one size fits all", though for narrowed usage patterns, you will see similarities).
I'd advise you to search out previous RAID threads (there's quite a few), and pay attention to the various questions asked, and get back to us with some answers). I'd also recommend you review Wiki's RAID page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAID) (pay particular attention to the different levels).
If you're a paid professional, using a stripe set (RAID 0) is a disaster waiting to happen. Even with a backup, you'll spend a fair bit of time to perform a recovery when a disk dies (matter of when, not if), and this also means re-performing work that was done between the most recent backup and when the array failed (beyond replacing the bad disk and restoring all the backup files, which presumably <worst case>, will be multiples to return all the data you have from your backup media).
Glad to see you at least have some sort of backup with your current configuration. :)
Now if you go with a RAID card, you'll need to use enterprise grade drives for stability reasons (different recovery timings in the firmware than consumer models, which tend to be unstable as a result). Unfortunately, they're not as cheap (in fact, can be 2x as expensive as their consumer counterparts for the latest capacity).
Consumer disks are fine for backup purposes though, and this can save you a considerable amount of funds, particularly if your capacity requirements are high (i.e. eSATA card + Port Multiplier based external enclosure; example kit (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816111136&cm_re=tr4mp-_-16-111-136-_-Product)).
There are some inexpensive products that claim RAID 5, but be careful. Some are software based, which should never be used for this level (no solution to the "write hole issue" associated with parity based arrays). Others use very inexpensive hardware RAID controllers (aka RoC = RAID on a Chip). They're slow for primary usage, and is why they're cheap (compromise on performance vs. proper RAID cards).
If on a budget you could go with RAID-Z, it involves switching to the ZFS file system. RAID-Z1 apparently offers similar performance to RAID5. Read this thread (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1135718) for further insight.
This can get complicated on the software end though, and not recommended for those that aren't comfortable with the additional complexity (patches for OS X or via VM), particularly for a DAS system (has more merit with NAS or SAN IMO).
So I'd stick with a 3rd party hardware RAID card, assuming this is actually needed, enterprise disks and any enclosures/mounting hardware necessary. Much simpler in terms of software (install the drivers, and any interface software that's required to access the card settings), and the hardware aspect isn't that difficult either.
I would get an SSD for the OS and use the 3x 7200rpm Disks in RAID5.
RAID5 is great for storing uncompressed video data and in your case would offer protection against a single drive failure.
Most cards don't deal with consumer grade disks very well (ATTO and Area definitely don't).
But consumer disks are fine for backup purposed (i.e via eSATA and PM enclosures) due to the lower duty cycle (where you can cut costs effectively, and not endanger the data).
or Just RAID5 with 3x HDD's and partition the RAID volume.
I wouldn't do this if both partitions are to be used simultaneously (i.e. primary data one one partition, scratch data on the other).
The most recommend cards right now are the Areca 6g 1880 series or the new ATTO 6G series. For your needs something like the ARC-1880-i SAS 6G RAID Controller would suffice if you don't plan to connect external RAID/Storage solution.
Those are the best recommendations as far as brand and series per. As to a specific model, it will depend on the specifics, particularly for growth (i.e 8 ports may be outgrown in under 3 years, so getting a card with sufficient ports to last that long would be cheaper in the long run - just add disks and enclosures as necessary).
Sorry should have been more clear (like I said I'm dumb) I have a 500GB Boot drive that lives independently from the (3) 1TB drives RAIDED together via the OS.
A separate boot disk is advisable, as you still have a working OS if the array goes down (allows you to access the card, use the browser to search for help, or deal with Support from the card manufacturer if needed).
And ALL data (3.5TB's) is backed up by an external 4TB Time Machine RAID (2 drives @ 2TB each)...which is connected via 2 eSATA cables via the eSATA PCI Card I bought from OWC...which I guess is actually RAIDed by the OS as well.
That backup solution is a RAID 0. The overall backup solution will almost certainly need to change in order to be sufficient for the primary storage pool you'll end up with.
Not sure what you are looking at, since 3 drives is sort of an odd combination. I have a 2009/2010 Mac Pro Nehalem, running the apple sas card for the 4 internal bays (yes I know they make adapters to use 3rd party cards), and the performance is fair, not great but fair. About 300Mb/s read/write with 4 WD Black edition drives (1tb each). Externally, running an Areca 1680x card, with a 8 drive ProAvio chassis, 8 SAS Seagate 15k7 drives (450GB) which gives close to 900MB/s. I have tried multiple cards over the years, nano and I have exchanged lots of posts/messages. Email/PM me with specific questions and I will try and help you. Beware of most of these 3rd party slot adapters/etc. they are more hassle than they are worth.
I've not heard or seen any issues with the MaxUpgrades kit.
As per Apple's card, I'm no fan of it, particularly due to the cost/performance ratio.
BTW, the OP only has 2 posts at the time of writting this, so returning a PM isn't possible yet (needs to have 5 posts IIRC). email would work if you have that enabled.
Stella
Oct 21, 07:59 AM
I really hope Oracle can maintain an Apple version of Java, otherwise this will be a very sad day for people who use OSX and Java together.
Oracle has long dumped Oracle for OSX, so I'm not hopeful that Oracle Java 7 will ever see the light of day on Macs.
No Java - No OpenOffice and a load of other apps on OSX.
Also, quite a portion of Java developers use OSX too...
Even the Apple discussions board is powered by Java / JSP!
You missed the real story -- in the release notes Apple explain that they're deprecating the Apple maintained version of Java:
http://www.infoq.com/news/2010/10/apple-deprecates-java
Apple have provided a mechanism for installing 3rd party JDKs (in particular OpenJDK), but it likely won't work with current versions of Java IDEs (Netbeans, Eclipse etc) until they're updated to work with the new paths.
I wonder if this is anything to do with Oralce?
Oracle has long dumped Oracle for OSX, so I'm not hopeful that Oracle Java 7 will ever see the light of day on Macs.
No Java - No OpenOffice and a load of other apps on OSX.
Also, quite a portion of Java developers use OSX too...
Even the Apple discussions board is powered by Java / JSP!
You missed the real story -- in the release notes Apple explain that they're deprecating the Apple maintained version of Java:
http://www.infoq.com/news/2010/10/apple-deprecates-java
Apple have provided a mechanism for installing 3rd party JDKs (in particular OpenJDK), but it likely won't work with current versions of Java IDEs (Netbeans, Eclipse etc) until they're updated to work with the new paths.
I wonder if this is anything to do with Oralce?
wickedG35
Jul 1, 07:06 PM
Pics are here!
Without Flash:
http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii73/wickedg35/2407wfp.jpg
With Flash:
http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii73/wickedg35/2407wfp2.jpg
Again, the monitor is in pristine condition; not a scratch or dead pixel anywhere. I'm really meticulous about my electronics.
Without Flash:
http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii73/wickedg35/2407wfp.jpg
With Flash:
http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii73/wickedg35/2407wfp2.jpg
Again, the monitor is in pristine condition; not a scratch or dead pixel anywhere. I'm really meticulous about my electronics.
Mousse
Aug 3, 10:49 AM
The Daily Telegraph disclosed in June that senior space agency scientists believed the Earth will be hit with unprecedented levels of magnetic energy from solar flares after the Sun wakes �from a deep slumber� sometime around 2013.]
Sometime around 2013? More likely 2012. 2012?!:eek::eek::eek: We're all gonna die! We're all gonna die!:p
So that's how the world ends; a solar fart in our general direction.:(
Sometime around 2013? More likely 2012. 2012?!:eek::eek::eek: We're all gonna die! We're all gonna die!:p
So that's how the world ends; a solar fart in our general direction.:(
more...
{1984}
Sep 25, 07:27 PM
I think the 1gig is a better deal, but if i were you i would just go all out with the 1.25gig
pmasters
Feb 4, 01:21 PM
Awesome. Thanks a lot. I really appreciate the informed and quick reply.
more...
Stella
Apr 11, 05:13 PM
http://www.9to5mac.com/60892/windows-app-store-thats-just-microsoft-being-microsoft/
http://i.imgur.com/Xzb8O.png
This screenshot doesn't look anything like Mac AppStore IMO, and doesn't resemble iTunes ( the iOS AppStore ) either, much. It looks much more 'windows' like than Apple-like. If I looked at that screenshot without knowing its an appStore I'd immediately guess 'windows' over Apple.
http://i.imgur.com/Xzb8O.png
This screenshot doesn't look anything like Mac AppStore IMO, and doesn't resemble iTunes ( the iOS AppStore ) either, much. It looks much more 'windows' like than Apple-like. If I looked at that screenshot without knowing its an appStore I'd immediately guess 'windows' over Apple.
manapple
May 4, 12:11 AM
http://www.apple.com/macosx/security/
Mac Virus/Malware Info (http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=9400648&postcount=4)
Introduction to Security Overview (http://developer.apple.com/library/mac/#documentation/Security/Conceptual/Security_Overview/Introduction/Introduction.html)
thanks for the thread link. i have seen the apple page, and need more info, as it only lists achievements rather than talks about them. thanks again.
Mac Virus/Malware Info (http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=9400648&postcount=4)
Introduction to Security Overview (http://developer.apple.com/library/mac/#documentation/Security/Conceptual/Security_Overview/Introduction/Introduction.html)
thanks for the thread link. i have seen the apple page, and need more info, as it only lists achievements rather than talks about them. thanks again.
more...
Ommid
Apr 22, 01:13 PM
I too have been considering OWC but surely their RAM is just a relabel of another brand?
Nuck81
Oct 22, 01:28 AM
I forgot Eva Cassidy!!
She is the greatest folk singer nobody knows about....
She is the greatest folk singer nobody knows about....
more...
NateEssex
Apr 22, 10:24 PM
Hi all,
I need a "cheap", read inexpensive, GSM qwerty keyboard cell phone for my mom. I was going to go on eBay and buy a Blackberry Curve 8310, but then saw it requires a data plan with AT&T. I would like to avoid a mandatory data plan requirement, since she'll never use it.
I just need good audio quality and text messaging.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
I need a "cheap", read inexpensive, GSM qwerty keyboard cell phone for my mom. I was going to go on eBay and buy a Blackberry Curve 8310, but then saw it requires a data plan with AT&T. I would like to avoid a mandatory data plan requirement, since she'll never use it.
I just need good audio quality and text messaging.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Sky Blue
Mar 11, 10:30 AM
Lion's Safari is 5.1
more...
daryliow
Jun 23, 09:47 AM
Has anyone asked how many handsets o2 have?
tsugaru
May 7, 03:45 AM
What's the difference anyway (besides of the brand)?
Is one faster? more silent? more durable?
Seagate has gone down in the last couple of years in terms of build quality and reliability. I have had nothing but good things to say about Western Digital drives.
The current iMac 27" I have (the 3rd one I've received from Apple,) was fitted with a Seagate drive. I regret not keeping the first iMac I received with the cracked glass, as that had a Western Digital drive in it. The WD drive was much quieter. Performance is probably a wash, but I'll take the silence anyday, short of putting a Green/5x00rpm drive inside.
I know the 2TB WD Caviar Blacks are fairly loud, but my new one is staying with a 1TB drive. Hope I get the WD.
Is one faster? more silent? more durable?
Seagate has gone down in the last couple of years in terms of build quality and reliability. I have had nothing but good things to say about Western Digital drives.
The current iMac 27" I have (the 3rd one I've received from Apple,) was fitted with a Seagate drive. I regret not keeping the first iMac I received with the cracked glass, as that had a Western Digital drive in it. The WD drive was much quieter. Performance is probably a wash, but I'll take the silence anyday, short of putting a Green/5x00rpm drive inside.
I know the 2TB WD Caviar Blacks are fairly loud, but my new one is staying with a 1TB drive. Hope I get the WD.
more...
aarond12
Jan 10, 05:52 PM
This always confuses me. Why do they call it a newsreader? Why not an RSS reader? This does nothing more than keep track of and read RSS feeds. It's not significantly different/better than the RSS capability built into Safari or Firefox.
Maybe I'm a purist (or a snob), but to me a "newsreader" is an application used to read the newsgroups (the Usenet). Panic's Unison application is a newsreader. It connects to newsgroup servers and allows me to read posts and download attachments.
Am I being too picky?
-Aaron-
Maybe I'm a purist (or a snob), but to me a "newsreader" is an application used to read the newsgroups (the Usenet). Panic's Unison application is a newsreader. It connects to newsgroup servers and allows me to read posts and download attachments.
Am I being too picky?
-Aaron-
MovieCutter
Oct 31, 04:57 PM
http://cache-02.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/4/2009/04/data-robotics-drobopro-angle-on.jpg
800 movies (300 Blu Ray), 90 TV series. Physical media in storage for backup.
800 movies (300 Blu Ray), 90 TV series. Physical media in storage for backup.
more...
twoodcc
Apr 10, 11:22 PM
i have world community grid, i think its more helpful than folding. i started with seti also.
why do you think that?
why do you think that?
TootsieToots
Dec 21, 08:00 AM
Thanks for all the suggestions!
rgarjr
Apr 29, 01:02 AM
So every time u reboot u have to do the procedure again?
KentuckyHouse
Feb 9, 01:42 PM
Huh? What? I am on Verizon and can do all of that along with having great voice reliability!
Not at the same time, you can't. :p
Not at the same time, you can't. :p
Bear
Feb 14, 03:54 PM
EDIT: This stil won't work because the only way to run this utility is AFTER the Setup Assistant finishes; I've never tried deleting the .AppleSetupDone file to re-run the setup assistant after al the relevant updates have been installed.Ahh true.
Although starting from a fresh state, doing the software installs and updates and then just cleaning up the little bit created is easier than trying to clean up everythig the person might've created already.
Another possibility is for lbodnar to do the OS Install and software restore. And then sit there with the friend while the friend goes through the registration and stuff and let the friend see how the software update works. And if anything else needs to be installed..do it then. Make it a full experience for the friend.
Although starting from a fresh state, doing the software installs and updates and then just cleaning up the little bit created is easier than trying to clean up everythig the person might've created already.
Another possibility is for lbodnar to do the OS Install and software restore. And then sit there with the friend while the friend goes through the registration and stuff and let the friend see how the software update works. And if anything else needs to be installed..do it then. Make it a full experience for the friend.
RedTomato
Nov 22, 07:47 AM
Seems a good idea because of iOS convergence.
I wouldn't label it just the 'iOS forum' though. Not many people in the street are fully cognisant of iOS. Everyone knows Macs run OSX but the iOS brand is a bit more hidden behind the ranks of iPhones, iPods, and iPads.
You could label it something like ' iOS - the software that runs your iPod, iPhone, and iPad' then the other forums could become 'iPhone hardware', iPad hardware' etc.
I wouldn't label it just the 'iOS forum' though. Not many people in the street are fully cognisant of iOS. Everyone knows Macs run OSX but the iOS brand is a bit more hidden behind the ranks of iPhones, iPods, and iPads.
You could label it something like ' iOS - the software that runs your iPod, iPhone, and iPad' then the other forums could become 'iPhone hardware', iPad hardware' etc.
mrfoof82
May 4, 06:36 PM
Just wondering!
A 27" iMac with an upgraded 6970M is not a standard retail channel configuration. Neither are models with solid state drives or SSD/HDD combos.
A 27" iMac with an upgraded 6970M is not a standard retail channel configuration. Neither are models with solid state drives or SSD/HDD combos.
Ibanez Strummer
Oct 11, 08:16 AM
I second Andy McKee and Raul Midon. I would look at somebody like Newton Faulkner. He's big in england and his live set is just him and acoustic rather than with some of the other instruments on the two albums. Maybe City & Colour for something a bit more emo.
Did you mean generally acoustic or instrumental?
Did you mean generally acoustic or instrumental?